Mary Herendeen:
Whether it's the rising cost of airfare, the nebulous COVID restrictions, or the desire to explore America's Heartland in an entertaining, unique, yet intimate way, U.S. river cruising might be the way to go. Welcome to Traveling With AAA. I'm your host Mary Herendeen, and on today's show, we're going on a different kind of cruise that's a bit closer to home. We have two guests joining us to share their own experiences on the U.S. waterways. Nick Chabarria, a public affairs specialist for the Auto Club of Missouri. Our listeners might know Nick from his marketing and promotion producing days with WWL-TV in New Orleans or as a multimedia journalist at KFVS-TV or KOMU-TV in Columbia, Missouri. Also joining us is Elizabeth Harryman Lasley, travel journalist and former co-host with her late husband, Paul Lasley, of OnTravel, a radio show that aired to a million listeners in 167 countries on the American Forces Network and at OnTravel.com. Elizabeth is also the former travel editor of Westways Magazine, where she continues to contribute today. Nick and Elizabeth, thank you for joining us today.
Elizabeth Harryman Lasley:
So nice to be here.
Mary:
Thank you.
Nick Chabarria:
It is great to be here. Excited to talk about domestic river cruising.
Mary:
I'm excited to hear about it. I've never been on a domestic river cruise. I know you're both experienced cruisers. How is river cruising different than oceanic cruising?
Elizabeth:
Nick, would you like to take that?
Nick:
I'll take a stab at it. Elizabeth, I think you have a little bit more experience than I do. My first river cruise was on the Mississippi with American Queen Voyages just a few months ago in April. I was really blown away by the experience on what some people might consider to be a relatively smaller ship. I was on the American Countess, American Queen Voyages’s newest riverboat. I think the max capacity was around maybe 280 people, which is substantially lower than a lot of these big oceanic cruises, which can typically hold up to 3,000. It definitely was—compared to the oceanic ships I've been on—a much more personalized, intimate experience, and I really did enjoy every minute of it.
Mary:
Wow. That's interesting. I didn't realize that it's such a smaller cruise. I've been on a large cruise—one cruise, so I can't say that I'm an expert—down to Puerto Vallarta and there were just a ton of people on board. Elizabeth, what are your thoughts?
Elizabeth:
Well, I agree with Nick. The other thing is ocean cruising is amazing because it can take you all over the world, but when you do a river cruise, you are instantly immersed into the heart of a country, whether it's a European river cruise or these wonderful cruises here in America.
Mary:
What's it like going through a lock? I heard that's a unique experience.
Elizabeth:
Well, it is one of the fun things you can do on a river cruise, especially on some of these river cruises that American Queen Voyages offers here in the United States. Going through a lock means going through different levels of a river to get to the end of the river. You go into a lock, this giant chamber, and the door is closed both behind you and in front of you. Then you descend all the way down into this giant chamber with concrete walls and everything, and then magically the doors open in front of you and you're out at a lower level. And, of course, the reverse if you're going up the river. But the fun thing about going through a lock with American Queen Voyages is everybody comes down to the lock to see you go through, especially if you’re in a rural area or a small town. I remember one time when my late husband, Paul, and I were on the American Queen, it was at night and we were on the top deck, and we were going to come into this lock.
Elizabeth:
And I noticed all these headlights. Why were all these cars coming into this lock in the middle of nowhere? They were coming to see us. See, all these boats on the river—I think they call them a boat—they're beautiful. The inside might be modern, but on the outside, it has tall smokestacks, the paddle wheel, and the decoration that kind of looks like a wedding cake, like the old riverboats in the 1800s. So they come down to see the riverboat go through the locks. And I remember we threw them coins, and they waved and threw kisses. It's a big deal. And these American Queen Voyages take you into America's Heartland, and that's what's special about them.
Mary:
Wow. That's amazing. Thank you for describing that experience. I had no idea it was so complex with the concrete walls, the closing doors. It's very interesting. I'd love to experience that. Nick, was this your first cruise on a river?
Nick:
Yes, it was. My itinerary started in Memphis and the full route wound up in Clarksville near Nashville, and it was amazing. Whenever you have that icebreaker of “tell us a fun fact about yourself,” this is my go-to: Since graduating college from the University of Missouri, I've lived in three different cities, all on the Mississippi River. I was first in Cape Girardeau, a smaller town in Missouri on the Mississippi; then went down to New Orleans, of course, a famous city on the Mississippi; and then up to St. Louis. A good portion of my river cruise went right down the heart of where I used to live for several years.
Nick:
And I can tell you that even growing up in the Midwest and living around the river, it really was a unique experience to see some of those towns and some of those areas that I lived around for so long, but see it from the perspective of being on the river rather than on the shore somewhere. It really was neat to see that. I remember we were coming up the Mississippi, I believe on day two of the trip, and we were crossing one of the main interstate bridges that connects Illinois to Missouri in Southern Illinois. I had driven over that bridge I can't tell you how many times, probably close to a hundred, but to see it from underneath from the river was such a unique perspective. So this is a river cruise that's accessible to folks in the Heartland, like Elizabeth said, in the Midwest compared to maybe having to take a flight or find a way down to the coast. Even if you've lived here your whole life, I can say at least from my perspective it was still very unique to see what I was able to see on board.
Mary:
Yeah, that's amazing. And you said this is a brand-new ship. What were your first impressions? I know Elizabeth described it as this big wedding cake-esque type of ship. Can you tell us about the ship you were on?
Nick:
Yeah, so the American Countess was christened in 2020. Of course, it unfortunately didn't get many sailings because of non-sail orders because of COVID, so it really got its first full year in 2021. I was on just in April 2022, so a beautiful new ship. I can say it had a very historical feel—the look of it—but with, of course, all the modern conveniences that you'd want. Upon entering the ship when you first board, you're in sort of the grand ballroom, the main bar area. There's spots where the band plays and lounge chairs with big, open windows looking over the river.
Nick:
It really was like stepping back in time aboard some of these old steam ships, very elegant, very well done. I was surprised for being a smaller ship, or what some folks might consider a smaller ship, just how much room was on board. I mean, you didn't feel cramped at all. It felt like you were in a nice roomy hotel lobby, if you will, where you could get a cocktail and enjoy some music. I was pleasantly surprised with what I was able to find on board.
Mary:
I love that kind of old elegant look, but also having the modern conveniences, knowing that everything is new and fresh and updated. That's awesome. I love that. Now, Elizabeth, I read the article you co-wrote with your late husband, Paul, which detailed your Ohio River cruise. Will you share with us a little bit about that? The photos were great.
Elizabeth:
Well, first of all, that was kind of a homecoming cruise for us, or at least for me, because how I fell in love with river boating in the first place is when I was in college. I went to Indiana University and at that time, they had an actual showboat, a real-life authentic showboat. It was built in 1923, and it had a paddle wheel. Back in the 20s, they used just like in the movies, it was a real showboat. I was in the theater department, and so for two summers I was on that showboat and we went from Cincinnati down the Ohio River and back, and we'd stop at towns and cities and do shows just like in the movies. We'd do melodramas and musical shows.
Elizabeth:
First of all, what a great summer, right? For kids in college? But also, that’s how I fell in love with the river because there was something about being on the river. Nick alluded to it, too. I loved what you said, Nick: You can watch the river from the banks, but when you went under that bridge, it's a whole other experience. There's something about being on the river; you don't know what's around the next bend or what the next town is going to be like. And so I fell in love with river boating at that time. Interestingly enough, this Ohio River cruise on the American Duchess started in Cincinnati, and it did pretty much the same itinerary that we used to do on the showboat.
Elizabeth:
So it was kind of like a homecoming. But it's a beautiful way to see the countryside. It was in spring, so there's green leaves that come in the spring, and you see the plowed fields on either side and the little villages with the white steeples. Just being on the river is wonderful. You hear the whoosh of the waters as the paddle wheel goes by. Nick, did you see any tows on the Mississippi? Tows pushing barges?
Nick:
Yeah, absolutely. Always something to see when you're moving. I was going to say I love oceanic cruises as well, but sometimes you go to sleep, wake up, and you're in a new port. You don't really get to enjoy that travel in between. On the river, I remember walking out of my room to the balcony area and just sitting down, watching the land go by. You see wildlife, of course you see all the industry that's on the river and those little towns. There's always like a big screen in front of you, and you're always watching something go by. That was one of the most relaxing and enjoyable parts as well.
Mary:
It sounds like it. Very interesting. Elizabeth, I had no idea about the showboat when you were in college; that's amazing.
Elizabeth:
It was!
Mary:
No wonder you were in love with it.
Elizabeth:
Yeah, two of the best summers of my life, and it also introduced me to the river. I remember our captain was a big, roly-poly guy with bright red cheeks and blue eyes that literally twinkled, and he would sit in the wheelhouse and tell tales of the river. There's a romance about river boating; you kind of recapture some of the romance of the early days of steam boating that Nick was alluding to. On all these American Queen Voyages boats, they have what they call a "riverlorian” who will tell you about the history. The guy on our ship was wonderful; his name was Bobby Durham. He said the rivers were the country's first super highways, even back to the indigenous people. That's how trade was carried on. They used to take their canoes down even all the way to Mexico. And for our country in its early days, this was how goods got transported. And what these tows are, they're towboats, but they push these big barges with coal or wheat. You know, our country's been through some tough times, but on the river you kind of get a sense of the resilience of our country.
Mary:
And all that nostalgia, that’s incredible.
Mary:
Yeah. I love that. Now, I'm hearing about the experience being so different. To your point, Nick, I've been on an oceanic cruise and you're right: You wake up and you're in a new port, or you wake up, you look out, and you just see endless, endless ocean. But to be able to see the towns passing by, I can see how that's a unique experience. What about the rest of the experience on board? I'm a fan of all-inclusive, if you've ever heard me before, and I hear these smaller cruises are no different. What can cruisers expect in terms of food, entertainment, fun?
Nick:
That's a great question and I think that's on the mind of a lot of cruisers, whether it's oceanic or river. We know that generally, those folks that enjoy cruises generally enjoy that all-inclusive experience. I can say from my experience on the American Countess that it really was that full, all-inclusive experience. Once you step on board, unless you do some of the extra side excursions or go off and have lunch on your own, everything is all included in that original price, which is great. Elizabeth, I don't know if the cruises you've taken have had themes. Entertainment-wise, the trip I was on, American music festival was the theme.
Nick:
Every night after dinner, we got some great performances by the house band, and each night did a different tour of different genres of American music. We had jazz, blues, and even a little country in there. You were learning as you were enjoying the show, and it seemed everybody enjoyed it. I don't think anyone wasn't up and dancing at one point, so it was great. Even the food tapped into the American Southern heritage, rotating menus every night, plenty of options to choose from. I was really blown away with what the crew was able to do and what programs they're able to put together in such an intimate setting.
Mary:
Awesome. What about for you, Elizabeth? Any favorites when you're on a river cruise? Any go-to for food?
Elizabeth:
On the cruise that I was on, the Ohio River, my favorite was the sugar cream pie.
Mary:
Tell us about it.
Elizabeth:
Sugar cream pie is a dish they used to have in Indiana, and it’s kind of like a custard, but in a pie and it's a little bit of brown sugar. I mean, it was delicious. The pulled-pork sandwiches and the sugar cream pie were my favorites. But I agree with it Nick. The entertainment on our ship was wonderful as well.
Mary:
Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Now, what about the shore excursions? We talked a little bit about that and what we’re seeing as we’re passing by, or seeing the land passing by. What were the shore excursions or port visits like?
Elizabeth:
Speaking of all-inclusive, the shore excursions are included in American Queen Voyages, which in a lot of cruise lines they're not. I think some shore excursions are extra fancy that you can pay extra for, but there's several shore excursions in every port that are included. For us, we went to Owensboro, Kentucky, and that is where the Bluegrass Music Hall of Fame & Museum is. Why Owensboro, Kentucky? Bill Monroe, the father of bluegrass, was born right near there. They have all kinds of memorabilia about great bluegrass artists and they have live performances. You go in, and depending on what time of day you're there, you can actually hear people playing amazing bluegrass. Another of our port stops was Louisville, Kentucky. There's the Kentucky Derby Museum at Churchill Downs, and they have a very interesting exhibit called the “Black Heritage in Racing” section. Did you know that the winning jockey of the very first Kentucky Derby in 1875 was Oliver Lewis, a black man?
Mary:
I had no idea.
Elizabeth:
And 15 of the first 28 Kentucky Derbies were won by horses with black jockeys.
Mary:
That's awesome. That's great to hear. Were you aware of that, Nick?
Nick:
I was not.
Nick:
These are great facts you learn when you get to visit these places and travel to them.
Mary:
A little bit of history. I was traveling in Kentucky. I was in Louisville, and I went to the Louisville Slugger Museum, so that was really cool. They showed us how they made a bat and I took a ton of pictures—me with the wax figure of Babe Ruth and a few others. It was really cool to see, and what a beautiful city!
Elizabeth:
Yeah, it is. Nick, I think you might agree, that when you learn those things when you're there, they stay with you. It’s not like just reading about it in a history book, right?
Nick:
Absolutely. It was interesting to me because you think of these towns along the river—and there are a lot of smaller towns—but even those smaller towns have a lot to offer and it's not just all historical sites. We went to Columbus, Kentucky was our first port day. There was a Civil War state park, the Columbus-Belmont State Park, a really well-done site commemorating the battle there in Columbus, Kentucky's contribution in the Civil War. What I found most interesting is it was actually a garrison setup, and you can still see the trenches where they were dug out around this farmhouse that served as the headquarters.
Nick:
It wasn't just looking at pictures or monuments; you were actually right on this battlefield, which I just found very fascinating. To Elizabeth's point, all the tours I did were included in my trip. And actually, in Columbus we had a twofer. We did the state park in the morning, and then we had the option to go to Discovery Park of America in Union City, Tennessee. Have either you heard of Discovery Park of America?
Mary:
Never.
Elizabeth:
No.
Nick:
I had not either, and I had no idea what to expect. I think the brochure undersold it because when you go there, it is amazing. It is a massive natural history, science, war museum. I mean, a little bit of everything there. I think there was like 40 different areas with different exhibits. You could see anything from space explorations to the world wars to historical vehicles, and they even had an outdoor area with log cabins and old-time barns and things like that. It really was an immersive experience and something I would never have expected to find in Union City, Tennessee. It was honestly one of the highlights of the trip when it comes to excursions. So it's things like that: You're necessarily not going to travel to these smaller towns or smaller cities on your own, but as part of the cruise, you get to experience all these great things they have to offer.
Mary:
You know, that's amazing. It's hard to be aware of everything out there and all the interesting, really cool places that you can see. I think that's what's unique about travel and when there is an itinerary or something like that put together: You get that opportunity to see those places you never would've known about. Now, if you were to rewrite that brochure, what would be the selling point? I could see you smiling as you talked about it, so I know it must have been really cool. What would you say? Paint the picture for us.
Nick:
As I'm thinking about it, maybe they hit it right on the head because it is hard to summarize. It's just a little bit of everything. I mean, whether you're interested in science, natural history, technology, military, or automotive, there's an exhibit there that you can check out. Maybe they struggle with writing it, too.
Mary:
Something for everyone, right? That's really cool. I saw your press release, I think after this cruise that you took, which reports on the interest in cruising and how it's really increased. Can you talk about the trend a little bit and what you're seeing, Nick?
Nick:
Yeah. AAA Travel has seen quite a substantial increase in domestic cruising, really kind of coming out of the pandemic. We know that 2022 bookings are up about 25% from pre-pandemic levels, and that's only continued to increase throughout the year. It's kind of gaining popularity. River cruising was always very popular for European destinations. I've seen American Queen Voyages expanding their trips and opportunities domestically, and even more recently, Viking river cruises announced that they're going to be sailing on the Mississippi for the first time very soon. And, of course, Viking is the go-to European cruise. So, plenty of options out there for anybody interested in finding a domestic river cruise. I would have to recommend working with a trusted travel advisor because there are so many options. Someone like a AAA travel advisor will be able to narrow down what you might be looking for and help try to get the best availability in pricing as well.
Mary:
Right. I never would've known. To your point, working with that travel advisor is important. Why do you think there’s the increase in interest? Elizabeth, maybe you can weigh in here. I know you've been in love with the river since your college days, but why do you think now there's such an increase in interest?
Elizabeth:
Well, I think a lot has to do with the fact that only recently has the United States stopped the requirement for having a negative COVID test to come back into the country. That has kind of put a damper on people traveling overseas. I think as that opens up, more people will travel overseas. I believe American Queen Voyages was one of the first cruise operations to start cruising again after that long period of lockdown precisely because it was domestic, so it's an easy destination to get to. A lot of these departure port are within driving distance of much of America, so it's an easy place to get to and it just holds so much excitement.
Mary:
That's what it sounds like. It sounds like people were just tired of being locked up. For avid cruisers, probably wanting to get back out on the water and using that as a choice. I know not have to get the negative COVID test on your way back… Having had quite a few of them over the pandemic, I can say it's not my most comfortable experience. It's not my favorite. I see the look on your face tells me the same.
Elizabeth:
None of us like that, but it's good to when you need to do it.
Nick:
To that point, American Queen Voyages, for example, still requires COVID tests prior to boarding and proof of vaccination. But what I can say is they make it so easy to do. They'll set you up with a COVID test prior to boarding, in the hotel that’s part of the package. So you go a day early to do your test. It’s very simple, very smooth. When I went, I didn't have any issues. And the good news is masks were optional on board. It was the week that I was there when they moved to mask optional. That, of course, made a lot of folks happy. Some still chose to wear it, and that was fine as well. There still are health and safety precautions in place to make sure that everybody has a fun and a safe time. But again, they really make the process very painless.
Mary:
Yeah. That's what I experienced at an all-inclusive in Mexico. This was still during the midst of everything. We went to an all-inclusive, and what they did is they set up the testing there, it was included. We didn't have to go anywhere for it—they provided us our results. Everything was really simple and as comfortable as it could be for us. I really appreciated that. I was willing to do it for the opportunity to get away and take a vacation, so I was happy with that. It sounds like those COVID-19 requirements are always changing. That's the latest, right? With American Queen Voyages?
Thank you for sharing that with us. I know that's important for our listeners, making sure that it's safe but also comfortable and they’re aware of what they need to do.
Elizabeth:
Check with your travel advisor because it can vary from cruise line to cruise line and from day to day. Checking with your AAA travel advisor can be a big help.
Mary:
Awesome. Now, which U.S. river cruises are best for couples? Do you have anything to weigh in there?
Elizabeth:
I have a feeling, and I'll be interested to hear your thought on this, Nick. American Queen Voyages typically markets to an older clientele. I think they're missing a bet because, you can hear from the way I've been talking, I think river cruising is extremely romantic—and my beloved Paul would agree. We have had so many wonderful romantic evenings on these river boats, just easing down the river with the moon above and the glistening on the wall.
Mary:
The way you describe it! It does sound romantic.
Elizabeth:
I'd like to hear Nick's opinion of this. I think it would be good for families. I know if I were a kid, I would have more fun playing pretend on these boats. I don't know. Nick, what do you think?
Nick:
I may have a little bit unique perspective. I was a solo traveler when I went on my cruise, and I had a great time as a solo traveler. As you mentioned, Elizabeth, I probably skewed a little bit younger on the ship compared to some of the other passengers, but you go to dinner and they sit you with other folks on the trip. I made some great friends, a couple from Connecticut and a couple from Florida. By the third night, we were singing at the bar together after dinner. Whether you're going solo or as a couple, which of course there were a majority of couples on my trip, you really can find something for everyone. To Elizabeth's point, I think some of these excursions would be great for kids, particularly the history part. Even that Discovery Park I mentioned, that's geared toward kids in general. I think no matter your situation, solo, couple or a family, the river cruises certainly have something to offer.
Mary:
You know, that is interesting. Being a solo traveler on a ship with a much smaller passenger load, it's probably a lot more intimate and easier to connect with people and reconnect with them during your excursions or your time together. So that's really cool. I know I like to have somebody by my side while traveling. I flew by myself to India, and I was like, “Oh, I really wish I had somebody with me” because it was such a long trip. I met friends and their family when I got there, but just flying there, I wish I had somebody by my side. And, of course, you're on an airline, they've got their people. I did get some rest though. Now finally, let's hear your tips for listeners who might be considering a U.S river cruise. Elizabeth, let's hear from you as somebody who's been a lot, but also Nick, I'd love to hear your tips as a first timer.
Elizabeth:
We've already mentioned booking through your AAA travel advisor, but also book early because I think these cruises are filling up fast. Consider some of the less famous rivers. I think the Lower Mississippi is the most popular route, but I would love to explore river cruises on the Cumberland River and the Tennessee River. My other tip is bring binoculars so when you're going by that little town, you can see the woman fishing by the riverside and stuff like that.
Mary:
Oh, that's really cool, and it adds to the romance. And Nick, for you?
Nick:
I think Elizabeth nailed it, especially the binoculars. I'm glad you brought that up because there were definitely times I wish I had some. And with that, maybe bring your big camera if you can. There's plenty of opportunities for great photos, amazing sunsets on the river. I would say if you're interested, there are a lot of options, and it certainly can be overwhelming in the number of tours that even American Queen offers. Certainly talk with your travel advisor; they're going to be able to help you narrow down your selection. And certainly, I would just reiterate book early because like we talked about earlier, because demand for domestic river cruising has really shot up in the last year. Make sure you're getting in early to get the best availability.
Mary:
Yeah, I think Viking really knew their stuff when they started U.S river cruising. They must have seen that there would be an increased trend in this type of travel. I just want to thank you both for coming here to the end of our show, Nick and Elizabeth. Thank you so much for being with us today and for sharing your perspective and your experience from river cruising.
Elizabeth:
It's been a pleasure.
Nick:
Glad to be here.
Mary:
Thank you. And thank you to our listeners for being with us. If you're planning a trip, be sure to connect with a AAA travel advisor, check out AAA.com/travel, or visit your local branch. And if you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe. I'm Mary Herendeen. Thank you for Traveling With AAA.
